Episode 2: Conversations That Matter - Alex Mecklenburg, Truth&Spectacle

Welcome back to the OpenBlend podcast, and our new series, Conversations that Matter. 

As part of this series, OpenBlend CEO and Founder Anna Rasmussen will sit down with individuals who deeply believe, like us, in the power of conversation. Each story will be unique - some personal, some professional, but all incredibly insightful. 

In our latest podcast episode, Anna spoke with Alex Mecklenburg, a Leadership and Change Coach & Consultant and Co-Founder of Consequential, Dot Project and Truth&Spectacle, to discuss how technology can improve human relationships. 

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Follow us on LinkedIn, where you can connect with our Founder & CEO Anna, and our Chief Revenue Officer, Jordan. Have you got a question for us that you'd like answered? Email hello@openblend.com today.

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Transcript

Anna Rasmussen 0:09   

Hello and welcome to the OpenBlend conversations that matter Podcast. I'm Anna Rasmussen, Founder and CEO of OpenBlend. OpenBlend  is a software platform that replaces the performance management approach of yesterday with a tool that recognises the human being in the achievement of goals and enables one to one conversations that drive outcomes to retain and grow high performing cultures. We've created this podcast series to share the opinions and experiences of individuals who deeply believe in the power of conversation. In each episode, we'll hear from people that we've hand picked for their unique perspective. Some of those personal, some of those professional are all incredibly insightful. We hope that you'll gain some valuable tips, advice and perspective on driving your own conversations that matter. 

Hello, everybody. And thank you so much for joining us today. Today, I am joined by the wonderful Alex Mecklenburg, who is a leadership and change coach. Alex is the co-founder of a tech consultancy and Co Op dot project and co-founder of a social innovation practice called consequential and also a third co foundership of a consultancy that specialises in creative leadership called Truth and spectacle. I have known Alex for around seven years and every single time we connect, I'm left feeling very thought provoked and inspired to change. So we thought we'd share some of Alex with you today on our conversations that matter podcast. So today, we're going to be talking about tech that improves human conversation. So Alex, thank you so much for joining us today. Please introduce yourself. 

Alex Mecklenburg 1:56   

Well, thank you, I think you already did a brilliant job. It's a bit complex at times, isn't it? I think when I introduce myself, I say I'm just somebody who's deeply fascinated by collective human behaviour. That's why I studied social science. And I thrive on connections and diversity. I learned that very early, when I was starting my career in the creative industries. When I left corporate employment, probably about 10 years ago, I then went, this is my opportunity to actually start a portfolio career, I can do many things. But all of these things really focus on three main focus areas; messy humans, and how to work with that messiness to shape strong collective relationships, responsible digital technology, and how it can and should have a positive impact on society and all of us. And then collective creativity and how actually, this allows us to collaborate and contribute to reimagine and produce new thinking and innovation. 

Anna Rasmussen 2:51   

Fantastic. So I love that, you have definitely got a portfolio career. So congratulations on achieving that post corporate. Yeah, you're you're involved in so many very, very important initiatives. So maybe we can kick off I think it's sort of you know, in our in our pre chat, we've looked at kind of splitting this 20 minutes into three sections, and that first one is around the opportunity for tech to reinvest time into human conversations. So should we should we kick off with you talking to that? 

Alex Mecklenburg 3:25   

Yeah, that will be fantastic. So here is here's my provocation. And I you know, me that's how I generally work, I think the world would be a better place if we stopped talking about the fact that technology saves us time. Because my answer to that is always, what does it save us? What are we doing with the saving? Why do we need? is there a big bank account of time that we can then tap in and out? And I think if we start to think about tech, being able to help us redistribute time to be used for what we believe is deeply important. I'll give you a couple of examples. I think it was back in 2019, the Dutch supermarket chain Jumbo, they introduced their first  Kletskassa. This is me speaking Dutch badly. Apologies every Dutch person, what it means is chatting checkouts. So these are slower checkouts for customers who aren't in a rush, and who are actively looking for a chat with the cashiers. So on the one side there had the automated cashiers that we all I don't really like them very much, but they work. They redistributed the time that they saved, and spend it in something that was deeply important for them as an organisation. I'll give you another example at the Dot project. We work a lot with digital project management, probably more so than a lot of other organisations. And that enables us to save time and to work asynchronously. But we don't do that to create this big savings of time somewhere. We do that to be able to use that time for connection and collective creativity. And we're doing very intentionally. So ultimately, I believe it's all always about the human intent, how you utilise your digital technology and how you redistribute your time that is saved by digital technology that will tell me a lot about your values and beliefs. Whether you are an organisation or a human. 

Anna Rasmussen 5:14   

So with the consultancies that you're working with, where's the kind of corporate argument in cost saving, with your, your value around the importance of connection? 

Alex Mecklenburg 5:25   

Well, I would articulate it to be resource saving. And as you say, I don't save I always save to reinvest. So starting to shift the conversation from saving to reinvesting and then having a very honest conversation about what's important to you. 

Anna Rasmussen 5:42   

So it's the reinvest question. Okay. I understand so, because the corporate mindset is around saving. Yeah, right. whether that'd be money, time, whatever that might be. And then your perspective on this, your challenges on this, it's not about saving, it's about reinvesting it in something for good.  

Alex Mecklenburg 6:02   

Exactly. And in the corporate world, it is always about reinvestment, it is always about redistribution. I save value and wealth here and I redistributed potentially to my shareholders. I redistributed potentially, to owners, it is all about identifying what is of value for me. And what is of value for me is where I invest. I'm not being a moral conscious, it's their decision. But I think if we start to really question, the value of saving, I save to do something. So what is it that I'm going to do with that saving? 

Anna Rasmussen 6:36   

Yeah, okay, brilliant. So then if we're, actually, before we move on to the next point, I'm keen to understand that through the consultancies that you work with, and the workshops that you run, do you have a structure for challenging how people think about reinvestment into corporates? 

 Alex Mecklenburg 6:56   

I generally talk about the fact that saving itself has no use. You don't save for nothing, right? We all save to then be able to do something with that resource. Whether money. So my challenge is, what is it that is important to you as an organisation and within an organisation? I think I'm probably very provocative. I always say it's not people who build an organisation, it is relationships, who build an organisation, you know, that daft analogy of relationships being the fuel of an organisation. So ultimately, if you don't invest in your relationships, and conversations are one of the first things to enable relationships, then you're going to lose the fuel that ultimately builds your organisation. 

Anna Rasmussen 7:47   

Yeah. And actually, it would, I mean, it's a fantastic selling point or unique value proposition for an organisation to use that language. 

Alex Mecklenburg 8:02   

Absolutely. For me, storytelling is one of the most powerful tools in any change management. Yeah. It is about reframing the story, challenging the story benevolently and going? Is that really what we do, there's another beautiful we talk about technology and the stories and the myths that sit within technology. One of the stories and myths that tech companies have used for years is we have to move fast and break things. And I go, Well, I'm not quite sure whether that is actually what you really want to do. You know, because you don't break things in an organisation that is best case scenario. worst case scenarios, you break relationships, and you break humans. Is that what you want? So one of my provocation is to ask organisations to reframe that sentiment into a story that they can connect with. Yes, they want to move fast. Yes, they want to test and yes, errors might happen. But the translation is not move fast and break things. 

Anna Rasmussen 9:02   

Yes, it the storytelling which obviously, which is, which is what truth and spectacle does. Okay, so that might lead us nicely on to our second point, which is around tech that you don't notice influences conversation. Say what pearls of wisdom do you have to share with us around the tech that you don't notice? Because I love that! 

Alex Mecklenburg 9:23   

Well, I think there is no pearls of wisdom, I would love to think I have loads of pearls of wisdom, I would make myself a necklace. But I think this is really about the fact that sometimes technology can get a little bit in its own head. And technology gets really excited about the technology. Whereas the most simple technology that we all use every day we don't even notice WhatsApp as a technology. Radio, I would argue as a technology. We don't notice radio, there is still a tendency of over constructing technology to the point that technology is often needy. It wants to be seen, it wants to be interacted with. But if the technology is just happening on the, on the underground, enabling a conversation with you and me like now, where we have to press as little buttons as we have we see each other, we don't really control anything else. That's what it is. That is the most powerful technology in my book. 

Anna Rasmussen 10:26   

Yeah, so it's, it's enhancing conversation, enabling conversation, as opposed to getting in the way of it. And it would be insane for me not to mention OpenBlend at this point, I think because actually, that's everything that we do with the one to one and it's interesting, from a product perspective. Because obviously, my background is coaching as well and develop this piece of software to enable effective one to ones between a manager and a direct report. But actually, we want the technology to get out of the way. And all it is is an enabler and it might provide might provide a framework, we provide the technology for them to organise their one to ones, prepare for their one to ones, but once they're together, and they're having it, it's about just getting out of the way and as you say, pressing as little buttons as possible. And it's interesting in tech conversations where you might be working with development teams or product people who are very excited about the technology and you have to go no, it's got to be so much simpler than that. It's just got to get out of the way. It's not it's, you know, the simple things are the most powerful things when it comes to compensation, right. 

Alex Mecklenburg 11:30   

I totally agree. I have a wonderful friend, Rachel Kawika. She was the CEO of dot everyone, which was a digital Think Tank, just before the pandemic and She now runs careful industries. And she has this wonderful slogan, just enough internet. And I really deeply believe that let's not get overexcited the internet technology are fantastic. But it is about what does enough look like? Yeah. Does it support what we do? And when does it get in the way? 

Anna Rasmussen 12:02   

Yeah, and it's an interesting one, I have a 13 year old daughter may who know it's tik tock its a big thing. And when she came home, and I think like majority of parents don't get asked if they're allowed to have tikk tock. And one of her selling points was that there's conversation going on at school things going on at school that everyone knows about that she can't join in, because she's not seen it. And that's quite an interesting take on technology, facilitating conversation, because that was a social, it became a social norm. So even with Glastonbury, Elton John brought on Steven Sanchez, who sang his song, we had the privilege of being in class and we actually this year with our kids and May was singing this song. And I said, Well, how do you know the song where it's a tik tock song? Everyone knew the song because it was from tik tock. So it's that's a quite an interesting concept, isn't it that actually in that you've got this, what is perceived actually as quite a negative very time consuming piece of technology, that when you're off it creates social norms within a within a friendship group. And that's within 12-13 year olds. 

 Alex Mecklenburg 13:11   

Absolutely. And that is not a new thing. In my time. That was the television. My parents were very strict with television, I have no idea about a lot of series, which meant that I felt often a bit outside, I had no idea what people talked about, I couldn't connect about that. So I think just again, being careful about the narrative, understanding what it is, understanding what technology allows you to look down, so your own little bubble, but what also really allows you to look up, which means you look outside of your bubble, and that could be technology that gives you access to information that you otherwise wouldn't get. It is a wonderful other thing is I don't know whether you were at Coal drop in London, about a year ago, but what they did is they installed those digital seesaws. And they were working with senses of pressure. So if you were seesawing it started to create music and light. And it was very subtle. But the joy in cold drop, both grownups and children starting to interact seesaws to seesaws conversations and connections that would have never ever happened is pure joy for me. 

Anna Rasmussen 14:18   

Yes. Using technology to create a shared experience that enabled those conversations to sit within. Yeah. 

Alex Mecklenburg 14:26   

And that doesn't shadow the conversations. And I love that because I think we have sometimes experiences who want to be so intense that it is really difficult in that context to have conversations that might be that there's too loud music, there's too much going on. But those seesaws were beautiful because they didn't overshadow the voices and the laughter and the joy that the humans had as they were interacting with technology and with each other. 

Anna Rasmussen 14:54   

Yes, and that I mean that that was our third and final point actually was about creating conversations that never would have happened. And actually, that's what we've just been referring to there. And those, those people that were enjoying the seesaws, and the aspects that were happening there that those conversations wouldn't have happened, they wouldn't have had that could shared common ground in order to have the conversation if you've got some other experiences that you can bring to life where technology's facilitating conversations that would never otherwise happen. 

Alex Mecklenburg 15:19   

Well, I do think there's two, you talked about your daughter, I don't have a daughter, but I have a fabulous niece, and she is 14 Come 15. And she's very, very, very knowledgeable. My brother in law is a coder. So they talk a lot about technology in their household. And for my niece, technology has been a real window to the world. She has an immense amount of friends outside of Germany, she's connected with people who have the same passion. She's wrangling with her identity, pretty much as every teenager at the moment, and had the opportunity to connect with so many people. And I find that interesting, because that wonderful old story, it takes a village to raise a child. You know, in our own families, we don't always have time, but actually, if curated and continuously to spoken about, you know, the connections in the internet can start to become that village to help raise a child. Yeah. And it is about integrating digital relationships with real relationships and making sure that both of them connect. So that's a very practical one. Again, not very sexy, but something that probably everybody can connect to. 

Anna Rasmussen 16:35   

I think I think it's so important, so much negative. News, newsworthy, negative concerns around children on the internet, but actually, as you mentioned there about identity and how you know, there is prevalent in every teenager's life, you know, who am I? What do I stand for? And if and if you can reach out to people beyond your immediate network that you can share ideas with that can help support you in whatever you no route you just decide to take, then that's a really positive thing. You don't, we don't hear about that's not newsworthy, is it? We don't, 

Alex Mecklenburg 17:13   

It's boring, is boring for the news and the same thing. So I work a lot in the social economy. And it's so fascinating how small community organisations are really empowered with technology, they're able to work in a very different way. They're able to identify other small place based community organisations that might sit somewhere completely different, and start to exchange experiences, they might exchange staff, they might start to collaborate on bigger initiatives. So I do think this idea about community tech and how that enables people to create much closer relationships is another wonderful story. But they're just not as sticky, aren't they? The Doom scrawling stories exist, absolutely they do exist. You know, I would consider myself a tech ethicist, and there is a lot of difficult conversations to be had around technology. And it also is an amazing enabler. 

Anna Rasmussen 18:15   

Absolutely. Right. Well, that is a fantastic place for us to bring our conversation to an end. And I think if you had an ask of every listener, who's listening us today, because this is the message that needs spreading, isn't it just to change the change the perspective on how we view this is reinvestment is focusing in on the positive aspects that come out socially, economically, environmentally? Absolutely. Technology? Yeah, 

Alex Mecklenburg 18:46   

Absolutely. I mean, the way that I would phrase it technology should never replace and can never replace or save human interactions. But what it can do is it can enable more time, it can enable you to reinvest that time, and it can support you in having brilliant human interactions. And living alongside and deeply connected is what my vision is. 

Anna Rasmussen 19:13   

Love it. Listen, listeners, I told you that every time I connect with Alex, I feel thought provoked and inspired to change. So you've got my vote on banging that drum. Anyway, Alex, it's a fantastic thank you so much. It was an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast today. 

Alex Mecklenburg 19:30   

Thank you for having me and have a wonderful day.